Curse

Pevil Lihatuh · May 07, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

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I think what most people are looking at is a desire for their characters to be more unique in look as well as deed. It may be centered on the group and the "greater good", but it is nice to know who killed the dragon of doom, and who slaughtered the queen of the Lizard-people (these are for instances). I think, however, that some monsters, quests, etc should be profession specific so as to differentiate one character build from another.

quote fits my argument perfectly thank you

exactly, so like i suggested, lets have these weapons that do the same damage as the bows/swords/hammers etc that you can find (the top ones that is) but with unique graphics that can ONLY be found from uber quests. I said it 3 times now lol. You would look differnt. People would see it and KNOW you have awesome PvE skill. And YOU would know it too.

Jackell · May 07, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I know what Half-life is, and I remember those Half-Life counterstrike debates. God, thinking of Half-Life, remember that big baby at the end? God, that thing sucked.

Yes, your argument is valid, but hardly applicable. Counter-strike used the base Half-Life engine. It didn't change Half-Life, it was pretty much a different game with the Half-Life source code.

People are asking for a change in Guild Wars itself.

But enough of that noise. I want to say a few things, so I'm gonna climb onto my soapbox.

First thing: How is being able to craft a special weapon that suits your character specially not as good as getting a weapon that looks cool but you can't use (i.e. giving a Mesmer a sword) as a quest reward?

Second: To who wanted special things, have you ever heard of Eternal Weapons? Or even dragon swords? You want a sepcial item that looks cool but hardly does more? How much cooler does it get than the dragon sword? IT'S A BIG FLAMING SWORD WITH FIRE AND DEATH AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. These items are out there, but few people have em. The games been out a week. Give it more time to find those. Their there. Exactly what you people are asking for is there. You want a really cool looking item that doesn't offset balance. Their there. Their not easy to get to, so people are just starting to get there again, but they are there.

As for quest's giving super leet weapons, how are you going to tell who really is great? How do you know they didn't buy that thing or get it from a guildmate? Make it so it can't be handed down?

Then a lot of people will miss out on this quest. People won't want to do it then cuz they can't get rid of it if they craft something better, or it doesn't sit with their build. Say I have a R/Wa that uses swords, and is a Ranger for the stances. Oh boy, this quest will give me a bow that I can sell for 5 bucks.

Or a warrior that uses Hammers and the quest gives a sword. It would be more of a marker of "Whose good at PvE that just happened to be able to use this", or more likely "Who sucks at PvE that just happened to get into a good group". How long until everyone has this weapon? Who are you going to show off to then?

This argument seems to just to want to show off. But how can you if your uber weapon doesn't appear in town? Most people show off by beating others in PvP. You don't want to do that? Then tell your group about how you beat Althea's Ashes with only Henchman, at level 9. Talk about the quests you completed that are really hard. A good story will be more impressive than a sword with a pig on the hilt that you may have gotten from someone else.

Drylnn · May 07, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

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People are asking for a change in Guild Wars itself.

A change that won't affect anyone who plays PVP. I fail to see the problem.

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First thing: How is being able to craft a special weapon that suits your character specially not as good as getting a weapon that looks cool but you can't use (i.e. giving a Mesmer a sword) as a quest reward?

It's not as nice to you, but to others, it's what they want. Not everyone likes the same exact things.

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Second: To who wanted special things, have you ever heard of Eternal Weapons? Or even dragon swords...

I know about those items. I've seen and had some of them. They're not exactly what I'm asking for, and how are they unique if 2 months down the road, every single person has one with roughly equivalent stats and looks. I know there are various blades for the dragon swords, but in the end, people are going to gravitate towards PVP stuff that makes them equivalent to the others in the arena, and there's a very limited slate of items that I believe will end up being used in 2 months (right now, there's a lot of variation because it's a new game, but I am already seeing the lines start to converge towards a single set of options).

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As for quest's giving super leet weapons, how are you going to tell who really is great? How do you know they didn't buy that thing or get it from a guildmate? Make it so it can't be handed down?

How will I know in the future that PVP battles won't be won with some sort of tool to help one win? (and please don't delude yourself into thinking people aren't working on cheats for the game). I'm not interested in proving to the masses that I earned the item fair and square. I'm interested in the story behind it (because my friends will know I'm not lying) and the adventure from it, and the uniqueness. Dragon swords are cool and novel right now because they're fairly rare being that its a new game. But I'm not looking at instant fixes... I'm looking 2 months down the road, when we're still 4-7 months from an expansion.

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Then a lot of people will miss out on this quest. People won't want to do it then cuz they can't get rid of it if they craft something better, or it doesn't sit with their build. Say I have a R/Wa that uses swords, and is a Ranger for the stances. Oh boy, this quest will give me a bow that I can sell for 5 bucks.

Hello? This is ALREADY HAPPENING. People are selling items and money for GW on ebay. So how will adding items change anything from this perspective. Answer: It won't!

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Or a warrior that uses Hammers and the quest gives a sword. It would be more of a marker of "Whose good at PvE that just happened to be able to use this", or more likely "Who sucks at PvE that just happened to get into a good group". How long until everyone has this weapon? Who are you going to show off to then?

This is what will happen if things remain as they are. Inevitably, the game will narrow down to a few defined choices, or you won't be able to win at PVP. It won't happen immediately, but mark my words, it WILL happen. So changes will have to be made at that point, and I'm just making my suggestions now before we're locked into that scenario.

You're locked into this item as proof of being "good" at PVE. That's not what we're saying. We're not looking as it as a "I'm uber!" trophy, but some uniqueness that 500000000 other people won't have in 2 months. Your tales about the people lying or buying items doesn't wash AT ALL because it is happening now, and you're deluding yourself if you think that it isn't. If anything, having MORE unique items will dilute that effect, because there will be a bigger base of interesting stuff for people to have. Different people will choose different things. But on the path we're on, in a few months, every PVP character (who is SERIOUS about winning and staying near the top of the ladder) will have the same makeups, nearly identical items. It will only take one group winning consistently to see it happen. People will figure out the nuances of the game and how to manipulate the system. Once that happens, I fear where GW will go.

And your answers still don't respond to the idea of how this HURTS pvp, which has been the main argument against it. It's easy to shoot down ideas. Maybe people believe PVP should remain the only focus, and that is a valid response, even if I disagree with it. But it doesn't have to be, and changes don't have to hurt the balance.

Raine Aduro · May 10, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

First off some people still dont think there are rare items in the game which just isnt true. and as stated many times in different places you just dont see them because they are rare. And people that havent gone far in the game really shouldnt comment on how ordinary items are and how you should get better items for long quest.

Next, yes this game may get stale because of such level caps but im sure some new expansions may raise it a bit. Plus the streaming updates does have potential to give players nice events frequently when they start doing it. im guessing they are just busy fixing things up.

Third of all, so say in 4 months people get bored and about 30% of the players will drop off. Loss in players really only means less strain on the servers. The concept of the game is no monthly fee so once you buy it they earn their profit from you. Only thing they have to make sure of is to grab your attention again when they release a new chapter.
If you play this game you can see how enjoyable it is. and for many gamers who are casual gamers a chapter will take you the 6-8 months to feel like you taken everything you can from the game which happens to be how long for chapter releases. (this includes starting over with new character classes)
what some people misunderstand in the "stale" prediction is that once you leave this game it doesnt mean that person wont come back. IMO the only reasons why this will happen is if the game isnt your type of game, the dev team loses site of their goals, or some new game that offers better content and beats this price.
I think most people will quit playing this game with a pretty satisfied exp. and will be easily tempted to buy expansions. Look how The Sims worked out. that game originally was easy to top off your character yet people played, got bored and came back again with the new expansion and it cycled over and over. This worked because people got the enjoyment they expected for the price they paid and when the enjoyment started to lack they werent jaded or regret their purchase. Add that concept with a whole side of PVPing and GVGing, this game is well worth the price you fork over and at the end when you are tired of this game you will leave it with a satisfied experience and when times comes you may find yourself purchasing an upgrade. Its up to the dev team to keep you satisfied on your purchases not how many hours you play before you get tired of the game.

Keure · May 10, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

It is very tough to add items that are stronger without upsetting skill balance in PvE. So you got that +blah sword that does more damage than current standards. Certain skills that are pretty useful now that don't factor in current weapon damage are only going to become less useful later on, because the skills that *do* factor in weapon damage are going to become flat-out better. So you say this: ok, give more items that increase maximum energy or increase attribute add-ons or have +damage on items to bring it in line. However, such items will also affect balance, as certain skills will become better or worse if one has, say, easier access to a high attribute or with a higher overall max energy pool.

Bottom line: Throwing in more powerful items than what exist now will only muck up the delicate skills balance that has been tuned for years. By throwing off this balance gameplay quality isn't increased, it's decreased, whether or not it's PvE or PvP. This is more than enough of a reason to not include more powerful items.

However, if new items were kept in line with the current balance of items (big if here) I'd say go for it. And I definitely would not say no to more armor/weapon appearance customization options...

Drylnn · May 13, 2005, 11:44 AM // 11:44

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Originally Posted by Keure

Throwing in more powerful items than what exist now will only muck up the delicate skills balance that has been tuned for years. By throwing off this balance gameplay quality isn't increased, it's decreased, whether or not it's PvE or PvP.

I can see why it would mess up PvP, but the effect on PvE could and probably would be minor. As the game is instanced for the environs, you control what group you'll make to enter the wilds. The environment doesn't have its difficulty affected by what weapons you have (in that, if you have better weapons, it gets harder for everyone in a region).

Dubby · May 13, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I don't know what you people are complaining about. I find GW fun, the items are fine. Little misc. addons like charm items or further modification on existing items would be nice, but who really needs uber items. The people that aren't good enough to play the game well? Iunno. My perks in this game are exploring and figuring out how to get out of sticky situations alive. So this is lots of fun.

We dont need uber items, maybe more variety in aesthetics of items, or the ability to customize the *look* of our gear, but certainly not something more powerful.

I would MUCH rather have unorthidox pvp rather then super duper items. Like, score based minigames, or sports. Lol

Besides, they're going to be adding expansions every 6 or so months.